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We are joined by Dr. Beverly Kaye, a renowned thought leader in career development, mobility, and employee retention. Bev shares insights from her decades-long career and discusses the importance of integrating the “human” side into career development strategies. She highlights how listening to employees and incorporating genuine care into daily work routines can significantly enhance employee satisfaction and loyalty. Bev explores current trends in Learning and Development (L&D), emphasizing personalization, agile learning, frequent career conversations, AI integration, and a focus on soft skills. She also shares details about her upcoming projects, including the release of the 3rd edition of Help Them Grow or Watch Them Go, the development of digital learning products, and the licensing of her intellectual property for customized organizational use.
Additionally, Bev recaps key takeaways from her recent webinar, such as the importance of routine, daily career conversations, effective conversation models using Hindsight, Foresight, and Insight, and new content on developing remote workers and ensuring psychological safety. Listen in to learn more about these exciting developments and gain valuable insights into career development strategies your can use in your organization.
00:01
Welcome to this week’s episode of the HRDQ-U In Review podcast, where we bring you the latest insights and practical tools for enhancing soft skills training in your organization. This podcast is brought to you by HRDQU.com, and I am your host, Sarah, Learning Events Manager at HRDQ-U. Today I have Dr. Beverly Kaye joining me to discuss the webinar, Help Them Grow or Watch Them Go: The Development Imperative. Thanks so much for joining me today, Bev.
00:28
You are welcome and I want to help everybody grow. Yes. So that’s what I’m all about. And, it has been a joy working on this webinar with you and your team. But for those that haven’t had the chance to join us for the webinar event or just a refresher, can you share a little bit about what you, you who you are and what you do? Okay. Well, my name is Bev Kaye and
00:57
I have been in the field of learning for almost five decades. And boy, have I seen things change. And, you know, I’m very lucky because the two specialties that I’ve had for all those years have remained evergreen, like thank heavens. One is the whole area of career development.
01:27
and I first wrote Up is Not the Only Way in 1982. Little did I know that that theme would follow me for the next decades. And we’re still trying to convince people that there are other ways to succeed and grow in your organization. Up is just one of them. The other specialty area
01:55
of mine was retention and engagement. And I think I shifted, I never left career, but I shifted to that because when I looked at why people go, it was I’m leaving because I don’t see opportunities in front of me. And I like to say that there are people who are opportunity blinded and people who are opportunity minded.
02:25
And I want to move people to the opportunity mindedness by educating them about all the opportunities that are there. So I’ve been doing that and I’m going to continue forever. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and I can imagine with nearly 50 years of experience, just the changes in technology, recessions, economic booms, and how that I’m sure has impacted.
02:54
um you know what you do today. That’s right absolutely. And that oh I’m sorry I didn’t mean to cut you I was gonna say there’s always a new demand there’s always a curve ball darn it that we have to deal with you’re right. Yeah absolutely and I think that’ll lead us into the next question here that I’d like to ask you um what changes do you see happening in the LND space right now?
03:25
So I see a few. And I like the one, I like we were being pushed to a degree. I love that we are personalizing the career conversation and the different ways that it could go. And that companies are trying to tailor the training they’re doing, the education they’re doing.
03:52
to the new needs of individuals, of Gen Zs, of millennials, et cetera. So much more personalization. I also see a lot of more creative and agile learning paths that companies are really now saying there are different ways for you to move and will show, actually show you.
04:21
who’s moved where and how, and they’re doing that in a variety of ways. I also, I absolutely love that the career conversation is not this happens once a year or twice a year, and we sit down and talk about your career goals. I’ve always believed those conversations happen all the time in the flow of work, and that’s what I think.
04:50
is important. And I’d say the other thing that we’ve jumped on the bandwagon is AI. So with the book, Julie and I created a book bot that if you buy the book, you can get the book bot and it will help you practice for the conversations that are coming up with your employees.
05:18
And all you have to do is you have to buy the book, but you have to go on our website, which is help-them-grow.com. And it will help you get ready for career conversations.
05:38
Yes, AI really is something interesting and it’s great. It’s amazing how it can really support us in so many ways. It’s just all the things that it can do. So that bot sounds like it’s really really great addition. And it’s fun. It’s fun. Yeah, I would imagine so. so Bev, moving on to that, I know you just released this book. What other exciting things are you guys up to over there?
06:07
Here’s how I’ve changed over the years. At one point I had a not large, but a good sized, like 40 person team of salespeople and trainers, and we delivered around the world. And I think now the attitude, my attitude, the attitude of my organization is more like have it your way.
06:36
So we are licensing our IP and we are wanting companies to get creative with it and make our IP work inside of their organizations. And we’re willing to help that creativity happen. But I love the idea of watching clients not have to do things in a lockstep way.
07:05
the way the trainers train them to do, but to use the pieces that fit what they need. the whole licensing of IP has become something I am personally excited about.
07:23
Yeah, that sounds really exciting. And to take a look here at the webinar that we did recently, Help Them Grow or Watch Them Go, The Development Imperative, which was all about your new book that was just released, can you share what the key takeaways were for our registrants at that event? Yeah, I’ll share. There’s so many, but I’ll share three of the takeaways. One is we gave
07:52
people a simple way to think about the career discussion. We gave it to the manager and we said, hey, there’s really three major parts. There’s hindsight, meaning your employee needs to be, you know, coached to think about what they’ve done in the past that they’ve loved doing and what are they good at. And the other part of hindsight is really
08:22
Who would agree that I’m good at those things? Because my own feeling like I’m great at that might not be seen by others. So the second part of hindsight is, do others agree with my self-perception? So hindsight’s the first step. The second step is foresight. And foresight is what’s changing in the world? And how do I need to get right?
08:51
ready for those changes. And there is so much happening and so much changing that if I’m not aware of the changes affecting my part of my organization and my own job, I could get obsolete really quickly. So it’s hindsight, it’s foresight, and then it’s insight.
09:19
And insight is where I think about some multiple goals that make sense given that homework I did. And insight is all about what do I have to do to get there? What learning do I need? And I think on the whole, people want to rush to insight far too quickly. They want to skip the hindsight homework. They want to skip foresight.
09:48
And they just want to say, what can you give me now? What’s my next step? And it’s not easy to do it that way. Yeah. And if you haven’t watched the webinar yet, we will link all of that information below. I highly recommend that you do so. It was a really engaging and interactive webinar that we had over there with Bev. So definitely check that out. The information will be below on that.
10:18
And then, Bev, I’d love for you to share the inspiration behind Help Them Grow or Watch Them Go. And what motivated you to write that and update this book? Well, one was the issue of career development was evergreen. Still was, still hot. Still individuals saying, I don’t know what my options are. And I wish that I could talk with my manager.
10:48
about what they see and compare it to what I see for myself. So we knew there was a need still to educate managers about their role in the career conversation. And we added several things that we hadn’t talked about before. We added the idea of how do you develop your remote people? How do you keep that
11:18
front of mind. And so the whole, because so many are staying remote despite the come back to the office full time that I’m reading about constantly, how do we help remote employees with their careers? And the second thing was the idea of psychological safety that we added. And a lot of people are talking about it. And it just means
11:48
What’s my comfort level in really saying, here’s what I love doing, here’s what I don’t love doing? And what’s my manager’s comfort level in talking with me about those things? So psychological safety, very important in the career conversation. Yeah. And I imagine in your time, your research, your experience,
12:16
There must be common mistakes that managers make. So what common mistakes do they make when it comes to career development? You know, maybe one common mistake is I don’t know how to do it. No one’s done it for me. And I’d say if no one’s done it for you, get comfortable in asking your employee what their thoughts are about their future.
12:46
or maybe asking them what they love most about their current work and what would they like to do more of. And maybe it isn’t we have to have a sit down conversation twice a year. Maybe it’s just noticing what the employee loves doing and commenting on it. Maybe that’s all there is.
13:12
You know, in one of the books I talk about, need to recognize what they see and verbalize it, speak it. I see the smile on your face when you did that report, you deliver that report to the team. Tell me more about that. So it’s recognize, verbalize, and if possible, it’s mobilize. You know, I never realized you like doing that so much.
13:42
I think I have an opportunity that might meet your wishes. So maybe the common mistake is that this is harder than I ever thought and there’s a way I have to do it. It’s really a matter of recognizing and asking what your employee loves doing the most in their work and wants to do more of.
14:11
Yeah, and I imagine that being really important to employees themselves so that they can maybe grow and prosper in the areas that they really enjoy and appreciate in their roles. Maybe there’s new opportunities there that they can take that they didn’t know that Sarah, you’re a very good listener. You’re a very good listener. Yep, you’re right. You’re right.
14:35
And Bev, what are some practical steps that managers can take to integrate meaningful career conversations into their regular interactions with employees? You know, I think it’s asking good open-ended questions. And one thing great about the book is there’s probably a couple, a hundred at least questions that any manager could ask, you know, at the right time, like,
15:05
and make them open-ended. Like, what’s important to you in your career right now? Like, what skills would you really like to develop? You know, those kinds of questions. And maybe the questions have to be integrated into what’s going on right now. Like an employee delivers a pitch to a client and the manager
15:35
is there to watch it. Maybe right after that it’s asking the employee, well, what do you think you did well? And where do you think you could have answered that differently? It’s taking advantage of those opportunities. I think it’s about curiosity. I think it’s about asking people what they’re curious about adding to their repertoire.
16:04
or what they’re curious about learning, and what challenges and excites them. The more you know what challenges and excites each and every person, the more you’ll know when a particular assignment might be really right for them. And then my big thing coming from the original work on Up is Not the Only Way is think beyond up.
16:33
beyond just the vertical move. I believe we are totally ignoring the enrichment move, which is growing right where you are, knowing what else you want to learn, how do you learn it now, and how do you apply it on the current job. So it’s not always moving away from what I’m doing. Maybe it’s moving deeper into what I’m doing.
17:05
And it’s got to be a habit. It’s got to be something I watch for and listen for all the time. Yeah. And I imagine, you know, the more that you do it, the better you get at, you know, just continuing Again, it’s recognize, if you just recognize it’s great. If you verbalize what you just recognize, that’s better. And if you have a way of mobilizing and giving the employee a chance.
17:33
Like that’s the cherry on top of the sundae. Yeah. And I would love to know what advice would you give to employees who feel their career development needs are not being met by their current managers? Wow. I’d say take control of your own development. Ask for what you want. And maybe
18:00
Be clear before you ask on what you do want. Like be clear on the skills you want to develop. Be clear on the projects that might help you grow. I think the more specific you are about your goals to your manager, the better it is. And I think absolutely, if they don’t initiate the conversation, you should.
18:29
And you should say, you know, I’d love a chance to talk about some of my career goals. You know, when is a good time for me to have that conversation with you? So initiate it. I also think employees need to be aware that there are other career paths than vertical, that you can move laterally, that you can grow where you are.
18:57
that you can explore for a short time something else, that you can say after you make a move, I made a mistake. That move doesn’t fit with me. And you can bring that up to your manager. I also think there are so many opportunities for employees to ask for feedback, to say to their manager, well, what did you think of that pitch I just made?
19:26
to that client, what was good about it, where could I have done even better? And I think that employees need to realize there are other people to network with in their organization other than their own bosses, absolutely. And I don’t think we do that enough. Yeah. Yeah, well, I appreciate those great tips that you shared.
19:54
And Bev, before I let you go and carry on with your day, where can listeners go to learn more about your work and connect with you? Well, the website is definitely BevK.com. That’s easy. I think my LinkedIn page may help. I’m on LinkedIn often. And I’m open for an old fashioned email saying, hey Bev, I listen to this.
20:23
Here’s what I’m stuck with. Or here’s what I’d love to learn. Those managers who tuned in. What do I do about this? And the Bookbot can answer a lot of questions also. So I can hardly believe that we used AI, but in fact we did. So many, many, many opportunities to learn more.
20:53
Great, we will have that information linked below along with the webinar event as well so that you can check that out. Thank you so much, for your time today. You are welcome. Sarah, you asked great questions and you listened to my answers and built on them. That’s my job. So I am impressed with you, my dear. Well, I very much so appreciate that, Bev.
21:19
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We are joined by Dr. Beverly Kaye, a renowned thought leader in career development, mobility, and employee retention. Bev shares insights from her decades-long career and discusses the importance of integrating the “human” side into career development strategies. She highlights how listening to employees and incorporating genuine care into daily work routines can significantly enhance employee satisfaction and loyalty. Bev explores current trends in Learning and Development (L&D), emphasizing personalization, agile learning, frequent career conversations, AI integration, and a focus on soft skills. She also shares details about her upcoming projects, including the release of the 3rd edition of Help Them Grow or Watch Them Go, the development of digital learning products, and the licensing of her intellectual property for customized organizational use.
Additionally, Bev recaps key takeaways from her recent webinar, such as the importance of routine, daily career conversations, effective conversation models using Hindsight, Foresight, and Insight, and new content on developing remote workers and ensuring psychological safety. Listen in to learn more about these exciting developments and gain valuable insights into career development strategies your can use in your organization.
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Beverly Kaye
Dr. Beverly Kaye is recognized internationally as one of the most knowledgeable and practical professionals in the areas of career development, employee engagement, and retention. Her contribution to the field of engagement and retention includes the Wall Street Journal bestseller, Love ‘Em or Lose ‘Em: Getting Good People to Stay, which is now in its 6th edition. Her recent books in the career development field include Up is Not the Only Way and Help Them Grow or Watch Them Go, which provided overwhelmed managers with a way to blend career conversations into their everyday routines. In 2018, ATD honored Beverly with their Lifetime Achievement Award, recognizing her advanced knowledge and extensive practice across the talent development field. In 2018, ISA awarded Beverly with their Thought Leadership Award for her body of work in the support of work-related learning and performance. In 2019, IMS awarded Beverly with their Lifetime Achievement Award for her contributions to the field of career development and employee engagement. In 2019, Best Practice Institute awarded Beverly with the Lifetime Achievement Award based on her significant contributions as a founder of the field of career development. In 2022, i4CP awarded Beverly their 2022 Industry Legend Award in appreciation of her outstanding contributions and commitment to the field of human resources and leadership.
Take a look at Beverly’s other books, Hello Stay Interviews, Goodbye Talent Loss and Love It, Don’t Leave It. And, connect with her at www.bevkaye.com.
Bev Kaye & Associates helps clients (both domestically and globally) in the areas of career development, mobility, engagement, and retention. Led by Bev Kaye, with over 50 years of experience, we offer insightful books and training programs to help you retain and grow your top talent.
Training Tools for Developing Great People Skills
This event is sponsored by HRDQ. For 45 years HRDQ has provided research-based, off-the-shelf soft-skills training resources for classroom, virtual, and online training. From assessments and workshops to experiential hands-on games, HRDQ helps organizations improve performance, increase job satisfaction, and more.
Ongoing Performance Development Customizable Courseware
Develop a four-step method to establish clear performance expectations in alignment with organizational objectives and learn to offer tailored training and development strategies that enable employees to enhance their skills and achieve their full potential.
Buy at HRDQstore.com
Motivating Employees to be their Best Customizable Courseware
Help employees uncover their intrinsic motivation by fostering a positive environment and eliminating obstacles. Participants will develop essential skills and strategies to inspire and empower both individuals and teams to acquire influence over their work-related actions while promoting open communication.
Buy at HRDQstore.comThe HRDQ-U In Review Podcast, brought to you by HRDQU.com, brings you the latest insights and practical tools for enhancing soft-skills training in your organization. As a learning community for trainers, coaches, consultants, managers, and anyone passionate about performance improvement, we interview subject matter experts and thought leaders from recent webinars they presented with us to take a deeper dive into the content they shared and answer all your questions. Join us as we explore new ideas and industry trends, share success stories, and discuss challenges faced by professionals.
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