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Welcome to this week’s episode of the HRDQ-U In Review podcast, where we bring you the latest insights and practical tools for enhancing soft skills training in your organization. This podcast is brought to you by HRDQU.com, and I am your host, Sarah, learning events manager at HRDQ-U. And today I have Sarah Ciavarri joining me, who recently presented the webinar

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Trust Me: Moving Trust from Catchphrase to Action, recently to our community of learning professionals. And today we’ll be talking a little bit more about that topic as well as getting to know Sarah a bit better. So thanks so much for joining me today, Sarah. It is my pleasure. I’m glad to be here, Sarah. So let’s kick things off here for any of those that didn’t get to attend the webinar and didn’t have a chance to view that yet. Can you catch everybody up to speed a little bit about

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who you are, what you do, and how you got to where you’re at today. Yeah, absolutely. So my name is Sarah Ciavarri. I live just outside of Minneapolis, Minnesota. And I love that I get to live on a little hobby farm. So that’s just a plug for following your dream, live your dream. And I am a leadership coach and developer of curriculum. I have been

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facilitating Dr. Brené Brown’s research for over a decade. I’ve taken literally hundreds, thousands of folks through um her curriculum, Daring Greatly, and then most recently Dare to Lead. uh I’m an author. I’ve written a book for leaders titled Finding Our Way to the Truth, Seven Lies Leaders Believe and How to Let Them Go with

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the focus on these things that are so positive. They sound so good. Like, I’m responsible for it all, or I’ve got to finish what I start. They sound like really great adages that Benjamin Franklin would have given us. But at some point, they don’t serve us, and they don’t serve our uh work in the world because they become ah so rigid. So I explore.

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What is the line between when these ideas are helpful and when do they become toxic? And when they become toxic, how do we move out of them? um So bottom line, I am a transformation junkie. I love growing myself. I love seeing other people grow. And so thanks for this opportunity to share with you and your audience.

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It was great to hear when we connected, I got to pick Sarah’s brain a bit about her hobby farm that she has, which I think was so cool. Such a cool, such a cool fact because not many, you know, many people, at least where I’m from, have farms with animals. And if you hadn’t had a chance to check out the webinar yet, you definitely should because Sarah talked a bit about some of her experiences with her horses and things like that. So it’s a really great added touch to the webinar, I think.

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I, to that point, Sarah, I have been thinking it would be so much fun. And I think I’m going to do this. All of the leadership lessons that I’ve learned from working with horses over the years, um just the assumptions that you bring in, things you think you know, and then you have to re-evaluate and, you know, be humble about looking at what really is the situation and how can I best help this.

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porters feel comfortable so they can do their best work. I it’s so fascinating. Absolutely. I can only imagine. And so now let’s talk a little bit about, like to ask all of my guest speakers that come on, what changes do you see happening in the L &D space right now? Yeah. I think so much is changing so quickly. really, foundationally, things are shifting. Even

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pre-pandemic, things were shifting out of a command and control kind of mentality to trust and inspire, as Stephen R. Covey calls it. So giving more autonomy to workers, providing more context, why are you doing what you’re doing? And how does it fit into the broader scheme of the organization’s goals? I think workers want to know.

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that their contribution matters and that their voice is heard. So what that looks like is providing more opportunities and avenues for clear, trusting conversations. And I think we also really see a shift from wanting values that organizations say they have to move from performative

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too uh actionable to practice. So we say we value DEIB. We say we value work-life balance, but what are the actions that um back that up? So I think employees are looking for more authenticity. And I think AI is huge. I think it’s on everybody’s mind right now about how is this going to change work. um

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several clients who, you know, feel like their job, their position right now is very much under threat because of AI. So the need for workers to really have a portfolio career and be able to talk about all of the learning that they have, even if there’s gaps in a resume, but all of the learnings that they’ve uh acquired through their working life, being able to weave the thread for a potential employer.

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about what it is they bring and how they understand their work history. So those are some of the big trends. And then another huge one is uh the silver tsunami is what we call it in health care. it’s, you know, with all of the baby boomers aging, uh it’s going to put a huge strain on health care in America. But not only that, you know, it’s shifting uh the workplace.

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because people are working longer and we have more generations working in the workspace now than we ever have. So one of the questions that came up in the webinar was how do you establish trust across different generations? And it gets right to the heart of this because we can’t have the same, we can’t assume everybody has the same assumptions, the same held beliefs that we do.

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because there’s so much more diversity of experience and age and rural or urban have been in the military or not, you know, that impacts how we see things. Yeah.

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To add to your comment about change, last week’s episode was all about change and it really is crazy how in the blink of an eye things are changing at such a fast pace and the ability to be able to adapt um to conform to this new environment is really important. Yeah, idea that we could be with one company forever, you know, is…

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people who have that experience are becoming fewer and fewer. And just, I think the ability to hold things lightly um is what is going to keep people engaged in work that’s meaningful. And also to weather the times when there potentially is a gap in employment. Yeah.

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And with that, exciting things are you up to next? Let’s put it on a more happy positive note here. Not that change isn’t positive, but… Yeah, it’s… So one of the things I really believe about change and how to weather it is if we dial into what are the things that truly give us life, like make us really excited and we feel alive and creative.

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what uh is known as seventh level energy. And it’s where creativity and synergy and innovation happen. And maybe the last time somebody experienced it was when they were out dancing with a group of friends and you just feel free. Like that’s the space where problems get solved and we just feel so good to be alive. So.

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Some of the things I am doing that gets me to that space is I love facilitating Dr. Brené Brown’s research on courage building and shame resilience because it is so transformative. And I have seen it change, literally change the demeanor of people from the first session we’re together to the last session. It’s like they’re a completely different person because how they view themselves has shifted and how they view experiences or events they’ve had.

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how that has shifted and now they have some freedom, but they have some language to understand really difficult things. So I have a class that is coming up beginning in September uh and I shared information with you about that. uh It runs just six Friday mornings starting September 8th and it ends up uh I think on the 13th of October. And then I have a new book coming out, my second book.

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called The Unnameable Beyond Emotional Intelligence for Leaders and Entrepreneurs, and that is coming out this fall. what I did in this book was really explore emotions that we don’t talk about, but that are there for all of us and the power we get when we realize they are there. So I talked about some hard ones, like betrayal.

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and despair. Like who wants to talk about either one of those things? But at the center of it is energy, and I call that fury. And that can turn into something that’s uh malignant and destructive, or it can turn to something that’s full of energy that just spurs the next phase of growth on. So then on the more positive side of emotions,

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um I talk about serendipity and kindness and awe. So I’m excited about that. I’m excited to hear what type of reactions people have. Oh, that sounds like you some really exciting things in the pipeline. And you can check out the description below for the information that Sarah was speaking on about her September 8th. uh

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trainings that she has there. And so let’s zone in a little bit here back to the webinar. So can you let people know what were the key takeaways for the registrants at the event so that everybody’s on the same page for those that maybe need a reminder from the webinar as well as those that didn’t get to attend? Absolutely. So we talked about trust. We did a flyover and we looked at trust at a very high level. uh We looked at the research of Charles Feldman.

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uh and then Brené Brown’s research that spun out of Charles Feldman’s research and trust as Charles Feldman defines it is choosing to risk making something you value vulnerable to another person’s Choosing to make something you value vulnerable or exposed to someone else’s actions. So think anytime you

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put together a project, a proposal. That’s what you’re doing. You’re putting your time, your effort, your energy into this thing that will be judged, uh that will be put up for debate. And good work happens when we get critical feedback, of course. But how we receive that and how someone gives it to us is the differentiator between um

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Do we experience this moment in a way that empowers us to get better or do we experience this in a way that makes us feel like I’m not as safe in this environment as I thought I was? So trust is foundational to psychological and emotional safety. uh We also covered some of the attributes of trust. So moving it just from an idea or a big kind of concept.

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to what does it look like in action and its boundaries. Its accountability, its having confidentiality, I tell you something and it stays between you and me. uh It’s being transparent. So when a leader says, we have this hard thing coming, uh we will let you know all of the things when we know them.

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Or it’s when a leader is willing to say, we have to make some budget cuts and this is financially where we are. That builds trust. Just the honesty of kind of threading that needle or walking the line of being really honest and transparent about what’s going on and also providing hope that’s based in an actionable, tangible, like, and this is how we’re going to move forward. This is how we’re going to get through it.

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those are some of the ways trust is built. also covered like, you know, um we have trust with ourselves. We have trust with em one other person on a team, organizationally with institutions and society and then, you know, with a society as a whole. so trust is fundamental to every functioning relationship and system in the world.

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And a common theme from our audience was about trust being broken, whether that was broken from them or, you know, if they actually caused the breach in trust. And how do you reestablish trust when it’s been broken? Yeah.

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If I had to sum my response up in two sentences, it would be, own your part. So if I have made an assumption that broke trust, or I made an assumption about somebody else’s intent, and then it spurred me on to respond in a certain way or to fuel a story, like the…

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graphic design department doesn’t really want to work with us on this project because of how I read an email. uh I have to go back and clean that up. So owning your part is hugely important to reestablish trust. Even in the situations where we could kind of hide or kind of skirt the issue, owning it, when you circle back and you own something that

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is yours to clean up, it builds trust in a profound way. Because then other people know, can trust that I can be uh certain or I can rest assured that you’re going to follow through on this project. And if you have questions, you don’t understand, or you think it’s beyond your skill set, you’re going to say that. You’re going to let me know. So even when it’s scary to own our part in something,

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On the other side, when we do it with um humility and clearness, and when the other person can hear it with kindness and openness, there is greater connection on the other side. And there’s greater synergy, because this disconnect between the two people or the group has dissipated. All that tense energy is gone. So think clear communication.

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is just incredibly important. And then what’s the game plan moving forward? So we had this breach in trust. ah We don’t want this to happen again. How are we going to handle it moving forward? And I can share just a personal story about this. I had a situation ah in my role as vice president of spiritual life ah where I dropped the ball. I dropped the ball on something that was uh

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you know, office-wide project. And we’d had some changes in staff. And when it came to life, that there was, you know, an event had been basically planned twice by two different teams, one of those being myself. It was like, oh my gosh, oh no, what happened? And, you know, I was screaming back through all the emails and like, oh.

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Where did I, what happened? What was the breakdown? And it came to light that the ball landed in my court and I forgot to close the loop on it. Things were so busy, things were going a mile a minute, I forgot to close the loop. And what also had happened was there had been some uh transition with other positions and so it was kind of left like, oh, maybe that’s where the ball got dropped, right?

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So it’s a situation where I could have just been like, I’ll just poo poo that. just like, okay, let’s just move on. know, something, a mistake happened. Hmm, I don’t know. I’m sure it was a person who left, you know. I’m like, that lacks all integrity. And even if that never comes back around, I know, I will know. And it will change how I show up. It’ll make me feel smaller and, you know, more,

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like pulling back is my best choice. So I just owned it. You know, I circled back to the people that I needed to clean it up with. I asked, how can I clean this up? What do I need to do? And the response was lovely. Like the person literally said to me, I am so glad I work with you.

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I think there’s something too, they’re so powerful about taking accountability of things, even if it feels uncomfortable. Yes, because it’s freedom. On the other side of it, it’s freedom. And, you know, I know not every situation is going to be like that because not all of us work in great environments where people are wanting the best for one another. can imagine also other scenarios very easily where

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my vulnerability would have been weaponized then. But it wasn’t the case here. And again, that circles back to trust. We have our values. We live into them. And that’s what guides us. Yeah. And you touched on this a little bit earlier. But how do you build trust on multi-generational teams? Oh, such a good question. So um I have a

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I’ve thought about this. I think first place to start is it comes from knowing ourselves. So what is my perspective? So um understanding my perspective is not the only perspective. um And be curious about what are other people’s perspectives. um

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what has shaped other people. I think of like millennials, um I think of young adults who watch the Twin Towers fall, who, know, the pandemic was really hard finishing up school online or, you know, the grief of not having a college graduation in the way you thought you would or uh all of the milestones.

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culturally that you anticipate having, like your sense of the world being stable is probably very different than mine where I grew up and em just some of the dynamics we have now were not as prominent or as prevalent. uh So one, understanding what is

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what is my perspective, and then being curious about other people’s experiences. And in a very tangible way, sometimes we will use name calling or stereotypes as a way to uh build connection. So if someone says, oh man, I am such a dinosaur when it comes to technology, that probably means they feel a little

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you know, exposed or little vulnerable when they’re using technology. And it’s one thing, it’s fine for them to say that about themselves, but for me to then say, yeah, you are such a dinosaur, know, get up your actual claws and get at that computer, like, whatever. that would be inappropriate. uh And so I think we just got to check to.

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Are we sane in doing things because we think they’ll build connections with our coworkers, but we could do it in a way that’s actually more authentic? Yeah. And can you talk a little bit about expectations and accountability in relation to trust? Yes. em

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So.

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Trust is not the idea that you don’t have expectations or you just say, okay, I trust you to do it. I trust you to know what’s best. Like that can actually feel like, ah, you’re setting me up for failure because I don’t know what’s best. I need some context. How does this fit with what else is going on? So expectations, we want to be clear. So trust is not about like hand holding or uh coddling at all.

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That’s not trust. Trust is about empowerment. So have expectations of your colleagues, your direct reports, but make sure you have stated them. So just have open conversations around what is the expectation on our turnaround time for email responses in our organization? What is the expectation for um what time of day?

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I respond to emails. And because we have a blend of hybrid and work from home and in office and teams can be across literally seven time zones, emails are going to be coming in at all of these different times. And that does not mean you have to answer right away. Just have the conversation about what is the expectation. Because I can’t live into something that I don’t know is there.

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And unless I’m communicating it to other people, it’s unreasonable, unfair, and unkind of me to expect that they can just read my mind, right? Just read my mind. um if I say, just do this project, Sarah, I want you to just get this webinar up there. If we don’t talk about time and length and content and what resources are needed,

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What I deliver and what you’re expecting can be very different things. um you know, accountability is a huge piece of trust. I trust that you’ll get this done in the manner that we discussed. And I’m going to help you be successful in that by being very clear about what that looks like. And then I imagine that

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you know, micromanaging might come into people’s minds right now and they hear me say that. That’s not what I mean at all. Micromanaging is like the flip of trust. It’s like, did you get it done? Did you get done? Did you get done? I mean, it’s annoying to everybody. Nobody likes that. So trust is saying, I will get it done. And em then, you know, the supervisor say,

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Right, right, right, you know this. And that’s where the supervisor then has to trust that it’s the right person in the right job and go back and look at the facts. Has this person delivered before? If so, then yes, they have demonstrated you can trust them. If there’s been some things that have been a little off, that’s okay. Did you as a supervisor talk them through what to do differently or better next time?

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Like this is how trust is built. Really the base of it is clear communication. Do I say what I mean and do I mean what I say? Yeah. And you know, how do you get everyone across the organization to bind trust? I could imagine that being a tough one to accomplish.

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It is. It is. um I always go back to the power of knowing yourself. And bottom line, we’re all human. We all have struggles beyond work. We’re all bringing things that our colleagues don’t necessarily know that are going on. And they may not necessarily need to know, right? Like, we don’t need to know everything. um

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that’s going on with someone to do good work. It’s everyone’s responsibility to develop a culture of trust. And we do that by recognizing diverse perspectives and experiences ah and being aware of affinity bias. So we might feel an easy kinship to somebody because they’re from the same culture we’re from, or they’re from the same part of the country, or we both like watching

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Mrs. Davis or whatever, like there’s paths of connection already. um

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When we dial in to the core values the company has and they’re actually living those, that builds trust. And when people circle back and they own their mistakes, not just top down, I mean, not just like direct reports needing to do that with their supervisors, but supervisors and VPs and C-suite people like owning when they make a mistake, that builds trust. It seems counterintuitive, but

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We kind of have a read when something feels inauthentic. Like if we check in with our gut, we kind of know like something’s off here. Maybe I can’t quite name it, but I get the sense that something is off. um So we have that intuition. And then what are the facts that dispel that, that clear it up for us or that let us know, there are some issues.

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some breaches in trust going on here. uh And I’ve seen in organizations when something uh massive breach of trust has happened, like financial mismanagement, it will take a long time for trust to be reestablished. ah And it’s going to take a lot more than the town hall meetings. Those are important. But then it’s

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You know, people want to say, OK, if this is our plan forward, what am I actually seeing that says we’re moving in that direction? know? Whereas there’s this great saying that comes from the cowboy culture, uh which is big hat, no cattle. So you’ve got a really big hat, ah big cowboy hat, but there’s not a lot backing it up.

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Like it would be me saying, I am a farmer. I am not a farmer. I’m a honey farmer. This is for fun. oh Well, with that, before I let you go today, Sarah, can you let listeners know where they can go to learn more about your work and connect with you? Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. So you can find me on LinkedIn, just Sarah Ciavarri, C-I-A-V-A-R-R-I.

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And then my website, which is www.saraciavarri.com. Great. And hopefully it wasn’t confusing for all of our audience viewers out there. We are both named Sarah. Just picked up on that at the end. But thank you so much, Sarah, for your time today and for sharing so much great information to talk a little bit more about the webinar that we presented the other week. Yeah. Thank you, Sarah. This was great to connect again. Thanks so much for your good work.

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And thank you all for tuning into this week’s episode. We hope you enjoy listening to the HRDQ-U In Review podcast available on all major streaming platforms. And if you did enjoy today’s episode, make sure to give us a follow and leave us a review. We look forward to seeing y’all next week.